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	<title>Comments on: Barkeepers beware:  Providence pub must pay the piper (ASCAP / BMI / SESAC)</title>
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	<description>Theatre, Film, Television, Music &#38; New Media</description>
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		<title>By: P.R.O.s continue policy of suing bars and Restaurants. Are your licenses in place? &#124; Law Offices of Gordon P. Firemark &#8211; Entertainment Lawyers</title>
		<link>http://firemark.com/2008/12/02/rhode-island-pub-music/comment-page-1/#comment-63</link>
		<dc:creator>P.R.O.s continue policy of suing bars and Restaurants. Are your licenses in place? &#124; Law Offices of Gordon P. Firemark &#8211; Entertainment Lawyers</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 03 Jul 2009 01:56:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://firemark.com/?p=235#comment-63</guid>
		<description>[...] I blogged  here last December,  Performance Rights Organizations like ASCAP and BMI continue their policy of [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] I blogged  here last December,  Performance Rights Organizations like ASCAP and BMI continue their policy of [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Christopher</title>
		<link>http://firemark.com/2008/12/02/rhode-island-pub-music/comment-page-1/#comment-62</link>
		<dc:creator>Christopher</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 24 Jun 2009 03:10:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://firemark.com/?p=235#comment-62</guid>
		<description>That is a strawman argument. A musician will play music because it is a.) an agreeable lifestyle for him/her; b.) because even without royalties, he/she will earn a profit on records sold and for performances; and c.) because they love making music and want to be known for their creation. We hear Beethoven&#039;s work everywhere, and he always gets the credit.

The tangible aspect of a musician&#039;s craft is the album it becomes imprinted on, or the mp3 in which it is encoded. (Also, the labor craft is founded upon &quot;intellectual property&quot; as well, i.e. the methods, procedures, theories, etc., so it is futile to found one&#039;s argument upon an &quot;intellectual&quot; footing solely.) Once it (the musician&#039;s tangible product) is lawfully purchased by an end consumer, the musician has no more right to say who should listen to it and when, than a writer has to say who should read their book and how. A book is a piece of intellectual property, so why do libraries not pay royalties to authors? They purchase the book once, as do you and I, and they loan it to as many people as they deem fit. In addition to that, some libraries offer public readings. That is exactly the same, in fact, it is  even more of a violation of the supposed &quot;intellectual property rights&quot; of the author: the library specifically generates its profit through the usage of the books, whereas the businesses you and I have referred to specifically make their profits by selling other products while using the music for aesthetic purposes.

&quot;...[T]hey write in HOPES that their songs become popular, are played in public, and they are THEN paid.&quot; Thank you for further elucidating the point I made in my original post: without the mediums, radio, bars, clubs, etc., the musicians would never sell albums nor ever be booked to perform live. So then, are those mediums not performing a service for the musician? They are indeed performing the service at their own expense, for they had to initially purchase the music, which they are then advertising FOR FREE! Yes, they make profits in the lines of business they are in, but why should they have to pay a musician, twice no less, for the free marketing of their music? If we are to truly speak of fairness and equity, then should we say that the musician, or label, should have to compensate the radio station, bar, club, etc., for making their artists popular enough to enrich themselves as they do?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>That is a strawman argument. A musician will play music because it is a.) an agreeable lifestyle for him/her; b.) because even without royalties, he/she will earn a profit on records sold and for performances; and c.) because they love making music and want to be known for their creation. We hear Beethoven&#8217;s work everywhere, and he always gets the credit.</p>
<p>The tangible aspect of a musician&#8217;s craft is the album it becomes imprinted on, or the mp3 in which it is encoded. (Also, the labor craft is founded upon &#8220;intellectual property&#8221; as well, i.e. the methods, procedures, theories, etc., so it is futile to found one&#8217;s argument upon an &#8220;intellectual&#8221; footing solely.) Once it (the musician&#8217;s tangible product) is lawfully purchased by an end consumer, the musician has no more right to say who should listen to it and when, than a writer has to say who should read their book and how. A book is a piece of intellectual property, so why do libraries not pay royalties to authors? They purchase the book once, as do you and I, and they loan it to as many people as they deem fit. In addition to that, some libraries offer public readings. That is exactly the same, in fact, it is  even more of a violation of the supposed &#8220;intellectual property rights&#8221; of the author: the library specifically generates its profit through the usage of the books, whereas the businesses you and I have referred to specifically make their profits by selling other products while using the music for aesthetic purposes.</p>
<p>&#8220;&#8230;[T]hey write in HOPES that their songs become popular, are played in public, and they are THEN paid.&#8221; Thank you for further elucidating the point I made in my original post: without the mediums, radio, bars, clubs, etc., the musicians would never sell albums nor ever be booked to perform live. So then, are those mediums not performing a service for the musician? They are indeed performing the service at their own expense, for they had to initially purchase the music, which they are then advertising FOR FREE! Yes, they make profits in the lines of business they are in, but why should they have to pay a musician, twice no less, for the free marketing of their music? If we are to truly speak of fairness and equity, then should we say that the musician, or label, should have to compensate the radio station, bar, club, etc., for making their artists popular enough to enrich themselves as they do?</p>
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		<title>By: Gordon Firemark</title>
		<link>http://firemark.com/2008/12/02/rhode-island-pub-music/comment-page-/#comment-61</link>
		<dc:creator>Gordon Firemark</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 24 Jun 2009 01:24:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://firemark.com/?p=235#comment-61</guid>
		<description>You make some well-reasoned arguments, but they&#039;re based on models that deal with Physical, tangible property, rather than intellectual property.  Remember that unlike the floor contractor, or whatever, the songwriter originally wrote the song on spec.  They&#039;re not paid a lump-sum for a job, they write in HOPES that their songs become popular, are played in public, and they are THEN paid.

For what it&#039;s worth, when a song is &quot;covered&quot; on an album, the songwriter makes 9.1 cents per copy of the record sold. (not much, when you consider that the song retails for  $1.00 (nowadays on iTunes) or more.  In my view, this isn&#039;t much.

Then, when the club owner plays that song for his patrons to dance to, the songwriter should get NOTHING?   I don&#039;t agree.
Bottom line is this.  Artists who create works like songs own the copyright in those songs, and have the right to control how their work is used.  They&#039;re entitled to get paid when their work is used.  Period.

If you don&#039;t like it.. .SILENCE IS GOLDEN, but if you want to use music to create an ambience... pay for it... just like everybody else.

Eliminating performance royalties would have the result of taking away the financial incentive for artists to create new works.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You make some well-reasoned arguments, but they&#8217;re based on models that deal with Physical, tangible property, rather than intellectual property.  Remember that unlike the floor contractor, or whatever, the songwriter originally wrote the song on spec.  They&#8217;re not paid a lump-sum for a job, they write in HOPES that their songs become popular, are played in public, and they are THEN paid.</p>
<p>For what it&#8217;s worth, when a song is &#8220;covered&#8221; on an album, the songwriter makes 9.1 cents per copy of the record sold. (not much, when you consider that the song retails for  $1.00 (nowadays on iTunes) or more.  In my view, this isn&#8217;t much.</p>
<p>Then, when the club owner plays that song for his patrons to dance to, the songwriter should get NOTHING?   I don&#8217;t agree.<br />
Bottom line is this.  Artists who create works like songs own the copyright in those songs, and have the right to control how their work is used.  They&#8217;re entitled to get paid when their work is used.  Period.</p>
<p>If you don&#8217;t like it.. .SILENCE IS GOLDEN, but if you want to use music to create an ambience&#8230; pay for it&#8230; just like everybody else.</p>
<p>Eliminating performance royalties would have the result of taking away the financial incentive for artists to create new works.</p>
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		<title>By: Christopher</title>
		<link>http://firemark.com/2008/12/02/rhode-island-pub-music/comment-page-1/#comment-60</link>
		<dc:creator>Christopher</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 24 Jun 2009 01:12:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://firemark.com/?p=235#comment-60</guid>
		<description>I do not think that anyone will disagree with the notion that once one borrows someone else&#039;s work, that credit should indeed be given to the originator of the initial creation. With that being said, if an artist who &quot;covers&quot; a song takes the liberty of adding his/her own style to the song, which then garners a following based upon the said artist&#039;s individual interpretation and musicianship, I believe it can be safely inferred that that following is based upon the new version, rather than the old. If the old version was so enticing, people would continue to patronize that version and ignore the new one. If a tiler comes to my house and replaces my linoleum kitchen floor with a elegant tile, should the layer of the original floor demand royalty payment for using the foundation he/she originally laid down? Credit is one thing, remuneration is another; the new artist is being remunerated for their work, viz. the updating of an old tune. Ideas should not be owned, read, Against Intellectual Monopoly by Michele Boldrin and David K. Levine.

The second issue you raise, regarding record companies, is a valid issue as well. To that I say: if an artist would like to take in more of the money, release the record independently. The natural reply to that would be one based upon the capital it would take to reach such a wide audience, and that it makes more sense to go through the label. Well then, is it not right to pay the label for their services: the fronting for studio time, distribution, marketing, etc.? It is a service like any other. The service the artist is paid for is quite correctly the record and performance fees; they are paid for their performance, literally, recorded and live.

Lastly, the bar or club, or any other business for that matter, makes money off of the product(s) it sells. People go to bars and clubs to drink and intermingle, restaurants to eat and drink, car dealers for cars, ikea for furniture, etc.; the aesthetics are most certainly not the principal selling tool. If a club has a nicely installed wooden dance floor, should the constructors of the floor be remunerated every time someone dances on it? Should the the construction company which outfitted the local bar with its bar counters be paid a royalty every time a drink is set down on the counter? Hardly. The business, like any ordinary consumer, purchases the music to be played at its establishment. At that point the artist is compensated for his/her/their work. Asking for any more is extortion: &quot;you pay me money to play my music, which you lawfully purchased from me at a predetermined fee, or else&quot;. I will never be able to reconcile that concept with the ideal of free and just liberty.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I do not think that anyone will disagree with the notion that once one borrows someone else&#8217;s work, that credit should indeed be given to the originator of the initial creation. With that being said, if an artist who &#8220;covers&#8221; a song takes the liberty of adding his/her own style to the song, which then garners a following based upon the said artist&#8217;s individual interpretation and musicianship, I believe it can be safely inferred that that following is based upon the new version, rather than the old. If the old version was so enticing, people would continue to patronize that version and ignore the new one. If a tiler comes to my house and replaces my linoleum kitchen floor with a elegant tile, should the layer of the original floor demand royalty payment for using the foundation he/she originally laid down? Credit is one thing, remuneration is another; the new artist is being remunerated for their work, viz. the updating of an old tune. Ideas should not be owned, read, Against Intellectual Monopoly by Michele Boldrin and David K. Levine.</p>
<p>The second issue you raise, regarding record companies, is a valid issue as well. To that I say: if an artist would like to take in more of the money, release the record independently. The natural reply to that would be one based upon the capital it would take to reach such a wide audience, and that it makes more sense to go through the label. Well then, is it not right to pay the label for their services: the fronting for studio time, distribution, marketing, etc.? It is a service like any other. The service the artist is paid for is quite correctly the record and performance fees; they are paid for their performance, literally, recorded and live.</p>
<p>Lastly, the bar or club, or any other business for that matter, makes money off of the product(s) it sells. People go to bars and clubs to drink and intermingle, restaurants to eat and drink, car dealers for cars, ikea for furniture, etc.; the aesthetics are most certainly not the principal selling tool. If a club has a nicely installed wooden dance floor, should the constructors of the floor be remunerated every time someone dances on it? Should the the construction company which outfitted the local bar with its bar counters be paid a royalty every time a drink is set down on the counter? Hardly. The business, like any ordinary consumer, purchases the music to be played at its establishment. At that point the artist is compensated for his/her/their work. Asking for any more is extortion: &#8220;you pay me money to play my music, which you lawfully purchased from me at a predetermined fee, or else&#8221;. I will never be able to reconcile that concept with the ideal of free and just liberty.</p>
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		<title>By: Gordon Firemark</title>
		<link>http://firemark.com/2008/12/02/rhode-island-pub-music/comment-page-/#comment-65</link>
		<dc:creator>Gordon Firemark</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 22 Jun 2009 02:29:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://firemark.com/?p=235#comment-65</guid>
		<description>What you fail to consider Christopher, is that many artists perform songs they didn&#039;t write.  Those songwriters need to get paid, and the system calling for payments for public performances of music is designed to deal with that.

Also, when records are sold.. it&#039;s the record companies, not the artists who see most of the money.

Finally, I think that the bar or club that makes money (in part) from playing music to entertain its guests and keep them in the establishment longer, consuming drinks, food, etc., SHOULD compensate the people responsible for making that music.  Just like they compensate the farmers who grow the produce they sell as food, and the distilleries that make the liquor they sell.  Isn&#039;t the music really one of the &quot;raw materials&quot; that a restaurant, bar, or night club combines with food, drink, etc, to create a satisfying customer experience?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>What you fail to consider Christopher, is that many artists perform songs they didn&#8217;t write.  Those songwriters need to get paid, and the system calling for payments for public performances of music is designed to deal with that.</p>
<p>Also, when records are sold.. it&#8217;s the record companies, not the artists who see most of the money.</p>
<p>Finally, I think that the bar or club that makes money (in part) from playing music to entertain its guests and keep them in the establishment longer, consuming drinks, food, etc., SHOULD compensate the people responsible for making that music.  Just like they compensate the farmers who grow the produce they sell as food, and the distilleries that make the liquor they sell.  Isn&#8217;t the music really one of the &#8220;raw materials&#8221; that a restaurant, bar, or night club combines with food, drink, etc, to create a satisfying customer experience?</p>
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		<title>By: Christopher</title>
		<link>http://firemark.com/2008/12/02/rhode-island-pub-music/comment-page-1/#comment-64</link>
		<dc:creator>Christopher</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 22 Jun 2009 02:21:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://firemark.com/?p=235#comment-64</guid>
		<description>Yes Mr. Firemark, it truly is nonsense. A logical deduction of the situation enables one to clearly see that without sound recordings being aired in the public domain, it would be pretty much impossible for the artist to enrich themselves, as they now do, via album and merchandise sales. The artists themselves could not possibly reach a wide enough audience to establish the type of commercial success that they currently enjoy by simply playing to live audiences. Furthermore, even if an artist attempted such a feat, how could one reasonably assume that they could garner large enough audiences without those audiences being previously familiar with their repertoire? How would Joe Public become familiar with the artist&#039;s work?
Radio, bars, restaurants, department stores, etc, should share a symbiotic relationship with musicians. The music accommodates the patron of the business, while the business serves as advertising for the musician; mutually beneficial without exacerbating the relationaship. However, because of lawyers such as yourself, and PRO&#039;s, this once symbiotic relationship has been transformed into a parasitic one.
Congratulations.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yes Mr. Firemark, it truly is nonsense. A logical deduction of the situation enables one to clearly see that without sound recordings being aired in the public domain, it would be pretty much impossible for the artist to enrich themselves, as they now do, via album and merchandise sales. The artists themselves could not possibly reach a wide enough audience to establish the type of commercial success that they currently enjoy by simply playing to live audiences. Furthermore, even if an artist attempted such a feat, how could one reasonably assume that they could garner large enough audiences without those audiences being previously familiar with their repertoire? How would Joe Public become familiar with the artist&#8217;s work?<br />
Radio, bars, restaurants, department stores, etc, should share a symbiotic relationship with musicians. The music accommodates the patron of the business, while the business serves as advertising for the musician; mutually beneficial without exacerbating the relationaship. However, because of lawyers such as yourself, and PRO&#8217;s, this once symbiotic relationship has been transformed into a parasitic one.<br />
Congratulations.</p>
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		<title>By: Gordon Firemark</title>
		<link>http://firemark.com/2008/12/02/rhode-island-pub-music/comment-page-1/#comment-58</link>
		<dc:creator>Gordon Firemark</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 12 Jan 2009 23:34:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://firemark.com/?p=235#comment-58</guid>
		<description>Is it really &quot;nonsense&quot; that the people responsible for writing songs be compensated when a bar, restaurant or other business uses their work to create an &quot;atmosphere&quot; in which to sell more drinks, food, products, etc?

The down economy is no excuse... it hits artists hard too.

Most Artists are &quot;the little guy&quot;, and this is one area of I.P. Law that favors the Artist.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Is it really &#8220;nonsense&#8221; that the people responsible for writing songs be compensated when a bar, restaurant or other business uses their work to create an &#8220;atmosphere&#8221; in which to sell more drinks, food, products, etc?</p>
<p>The down economy is no excuse&#8230; it hits artists hard too.</p>
<p>Most Artists are &#8220;the little guy&#8221;, and this is one area of I.P. Law that favors the Artist.</p>
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		<title>By: JT</title>
		<link>http://firemark.com/2008/12/02/rhode-island-pub-music/comment-page-1/#comment-59</link>
		<dc:creator>JT</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 12 Jan 2009 16:19:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://firemark.com/?p=235#comment-59</guid>
		<description>With the economy in shambles and intellectual property law so heavily favoring corporations, nonsense such as this is sure to continue.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>With the economy in shambles and intellectual property law so heavily favoring corporations, nonsense such as this is sure to continue.</p>
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